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Pipe for bending leading edge

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leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: Pipe for bending leading edge

Well I've waited long enough, it's time to get on with the wings.

I have a few questions.  The drawing calls for a 1 3/8" diameter tube for bending the leading edge.  I'm thinking of using the vacuum method, and this will likely be either next weekend, or within a few weeks.  

Does PVC pipe have adequate rigidity?  Are 12 foot lengths commonly available?  If not PVC I'm concerned as to what I'm going to do with a 12 foot length of steel pipe once I'm done.  This is a scratch build, so please don't tell me they come pre-bent.

Dan Dempsey

_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

lwinger

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 229
Location: Tustin, CA

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:00 pm Post subject: Pipe for bending leading edge

Dan,

  

 Check out http://www.ch601.org/resources/Nose%20Skin/bending_a_nose_skin.htm.  I used this method, with my worktable as bending brake, and it worked great.

   

 Good luck.  Follow the directions on their site and you'll have no problems.

  

 Larry Winger

 650/Corvair

 Scratch building

 Fuselage 98% complete

 On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 11:37 AM, leinad <leinad(at)hughes.net (leinad(at)hughes.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" <leinad(at)hughes.net (leinad(at)hughes.net)>

 

Well I've waited long enough, it's time to get on with the wings.

I have a few questions.  The drawing calls for a 1 3/8" diameter tube for bending the leading edge.  I'm thinking of using the vacuum method, and this will likely be either next weekend, or within a few weeks.

 Does PVC pipe have adequate rigidity?  Are 12 foot lengths commonly available?  If not PVC I'm concerned as to what I'm going to do with a 12 foot length of steel pipe once I'm done.  This is a scratch build, so please don't tell me they come pre-bent.

 Dan Dempsey



--------

Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine





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[b]

_________________
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Installing fuel system
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Pipe for bending leading edge

After trying to get help from the teenage children and trashing two pieces of .016" due to total lack of interest on their part    . I did something close to this, but I cut mine over size by 3 inches and trimmed to fit after. This allowed me to screw the boards to the trailing edge and not worry about being square. This was for the stab and elevator and not the wing.

I would think it would work for the wing, but I have not been there yet.

Kevin

_________________
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Dorothy McCune

leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Pipe for bending leading edge

Wade,

That's the method I was going to use, but what type of pipe did you use?  Is it PVC?  Do you think PVC would work?

Dan



 	  wjones(at)brazoriainet.co wrote: 	
		  Hey Dan ,I had good results using this  method.       Wade  Jones           ï¿½           ï¿½           ï¿½           ï¿½                        ï¿½     



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_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:46 pm Post subject: Pipe for bending leading edge

You have to use gas pipe or galvanized pipe PVC would flex 

  

 Jeff

  

 Is it PVC?  Do you think PVC would work?

 

  

 A Good Credit Score is 7001028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!

  [quote][b]

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Pipe for bending leading edge

 	  lwinger wrote: 	
		  Dan,

  

 Check out http://www.ch601.org/resources/Nose%20Skin/bending_a_nose_skin.htm.  I used this method, with my worktable as bending brake, and it worked great.

   

 Good luck.  Follow the directions on their site and you'll have no problems.

  

 Larry Winger

 650/Corvair

 Scratch building

 Fuselage 98% complete

[b] 	




Dan,  Ditto on what Larry said.  I did the bending solo on top of my table.  That's one of the things I like about this design, one guy can do most of the work.



If you are going the vacuum route I would imagine rigidity and straightness of the tube will be important.  Also you will need to keep the tube aligned to the skin during the process.

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

William Dominguez

Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 118

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: Pipe for bending leading edge

I remember seeing a video in youtube with some guys bending the nose skin for a Sonex. If I remember correctly, they used a PVC tube. I don't find the video right now but if I find it, I'll post the link. 



I have considered the table method described in CH601.org but my table is very heavy and have lot of things stored in it, my floor is not perfectly flat and my workshop does not provide enough clearance to easily turn the table upside down. I'll be using the vacuum method as well.



William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XL Plans

Miami Florida

http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom



--- On Sat, 1/24/09, leinad <leinad(at)hughes.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: leinad <leinad(at)hughes.net>

Subject: Re: Pipe for bending leading  edge

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 10:11 PM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad"<leinad(at)hughes.net>Wade,That's the method I was going to use, but what type of pipe did you use? Is it PVC?  Do you think PVC would work?Danwjones(at)brazoriainet.co wrote:> Hey Dan ,I had good results using this  method.       Wade  Jones          ï¿½           ï¿½           ï¿½           ï¿½                       ï¿½     > > Note:  or  receiving certain types of file attachments.  Check your e-mailsecurity--------Scratch building XL with Corvair EngineRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226625#226625Attachments:

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_2528_2_174.jpg< -->

	
	
  [quote][b]

_________________
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom

leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Pipe for bending leading edge

William,

I've seen the video.  It has been awhile, but I remember it differently.  I thought they were using a steel pipe.

Ron is great proponent of the table top bending jig method, and I'm sure it can work and do a good job.  I'm looking at using the vacuum method for a couple of reason, maybe not good ones, but here they are.  I used the table top method with the stabelizer leading edge and the results weren't so good.  There is slight, and if I pointed it out to you you'd notice it, curve to the leading edge.  It results in the middle being higher than the tips.  It's installed on the plane now, but I think I'm going to remake that part.  Also I made my table in 2 sections, one 8 foot long the other 4 foot long.  Third, it seams like you'd have better control with the vacuum, you could apply it slowly and not feel like you're wrestling with it.  

Here's my thinking on not needing a rigid tube.  It should be similar to folding a sheet of paper which can result in a perfectly straight line with out any guide at all.   I think all one should have to do is draw a straight line on the material.  Place the tube on that line, and hold it in place with a few pieces of duct tape.  The force of the vacuum is going to be very constant along the entire length of the bend. This is complete conjectures on my part.  Jeff has already spoken up and said the tube must be rigid.   Jeff was this from experience from vacuum forming using PVC, or your best guess?  

Short of any replies based on real experience I may purchase some aluminum flashing and try a scaled down test, perhaps using something really flimsy as radius guide.

Dan



[quote="William Dominguez"]I remember seeing a video in youtube with some guys bending the nose skin for a Sonex. If I remember correctly, they used a PVC tube. I don't find the video right now but if I find it, I'll post the link. 



I have considered the table method described in CH601.org but my table is very heavy and have lot of things stored in it, my floor is not perfectly flat and my workshop does not provide enough clearance to easily turn the table upside down. I'll be using the vacuum method as well.



William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XL Plans

Miami Florida

http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom



--- On Sat, 1/24/09, leinad <leinad> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: leinad <leinad>

Subject: Re: Pipe for bending leading  edge

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 10:11 PM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad"<leinad>Wade,That's the method I was going to use, but what type of pipe did you use? Is it PVC?  Do you think PVC would work?Danwjones(at)brazoriainet.co wrote:> Hey Dan ,I had good results using this  method.       Wade  Jones          ï¿½           ï¿½           ï¿½           ï¿½                       ï¿½     > > Note:  or  receiving certain types of file attachments.  Check your e-mailsecurity--------Scratch building XL with Corvair EngineRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226625#226625Attachments:

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_2528_2_174.jpg< -->

	
	
   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

bjohnson(at)satx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:05 am Post subject: Pipe for bending leading edge

I bent my Sonex leading edge skin using the Vacuum method with a PVC 

pipe, worked just fine.  There is no bending force on the pipe.



Bruce Johonson

Plans Building a Sonex in Schertz TX

On Gear.



leinad wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 William,

 I've seen the video.  It has been awhile, but I remember it differently.  I thought they were using a steel pipe.

 Ron is great proponent of the table top bending jig method, and I'm sure it can work and do a good job.  I'm looking at using the vacuum method for a couple of reason, maybe not good ones, but here they are.  I used the table top method with the stabelizer leading edge and the results weren't so good.  There is slight, and if I pointed it out to you you'd notice it, curve to the leading edge.  It results in the middle being higher than the tips.  It's installed on the plane now, but I think I'm going to remake that part.  Also I made my table in 2 sections, one 8 foot long the other 4 foot long.  Third, it seams like you'd have better control with the vacuum, you could apply it slowly and not feel like you're wrestling with it.  

 Here's my thinking on not needing a rigid tube.  It should be similar to folding a sheet of paper which can result in a perfectly straight line with out any guide at all.   I think all one should have to do is draw a straight line on the material.  Place the tube on that line, and hold it in place with a few pieces of duct tape.  The force of the vacuum is going to be very constant along the entire length of the bend. This is complete conjectures on my part.  Jeff has already spoken up and said the tube must be rigid.   Jeff was this from experience from vacuum forming using PVC, or your best guess?  

 Short of any replies based on real experience I may purchase some aluminum flashing and try a scaled down test, perhaps using something really flimsy as radius guide.

 Dan

 

 [quote="William Dominguez"]I remember seeing a video in youtube with some guys bending the nose skin for a Sonex. If I remember correctly, they used a PVC tube. I don't find the video right now but if I find it, I'll post the link. 

 

 I have considered the table method described in CH601.org but my table is very heavy and have lot of things stored in it, my floor is not perfectly flat and my workshop does not provide enough clearance to easily turn the table upside down. I'll be using the vacuum method as well.

 

 William Dominguez

 Zodiac 601XL Plans

 Miami Florida

 http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom

hills(at)sunflower.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: Pipe for bending leading edge

Ya, I did my Sonerai wing skins with the vacuum method, it works like magic.

But, be sure to have something limiting the bend radius, it works to fast to

do it by hand (I used a 2" pvc pipe)



Roger



--

leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Pipe for bending leading edge

I got one nose skin bent today.  Using the vacuum method it went well.  I ran out of time (had to go to a Super Bowl party) before I finished the second one.   I used steel pipe, which I had to join because the longest lengths I could find were 10 feet.

THere are pictures on my web site at:

http://daniel.dempseyfamily.us/zodiac/index.html

_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject: Pipe for bending leading edge

 

  

 Just a question, I have always been told to check cable  tension in the middle of the cable run and not at the ends. It has been a  very  long time since I have checked any cables so not sure this is true.   Have you compared the cable tension at the end and in the middle of the  run?  Jerry of GA   DO NOT ARCHIVE

  

  

  In a message dated 2/1/2009 10:27:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  leinad(at)hughes.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  http://daniel.dempseyfamily.us/zodiac/index.html 	


 From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the [url=http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023 ]latest news[/url].

  [quote][b]

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Pipe for bending leading edge

Looking good Dan, hope your team won. Did ya get any pictures with the vacuum applied and the part totally collapsed?

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Pipe for bending leading edge

I t does not look as though you drilled holes in the pipe? I drilled holes along one side down the pipes length for the stab and elevator skins. I assume that you let the vac suck out one end inside the plastic? This is interesting, because I don't want to ruin  another pipe by drilling holes in it when I do my wing skin!

do not archive



Kevin

leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Pipe for bending leading edge

Ron,

No I didn't.  I picked up the camera to shoot one, but just about the time I was ready to take the picture a hole developed in the plastic and let the air out.  The part was already bent, so I saw no use in fixing the hole just for a picture.    I'll try again next time, maybe ask for an assistant on that issue.

Dan



 	  Ron Lendon wrote: 	
		  Looking good Dan, hope your team won.  Did ya get any pictures with the vacuum applied and the part totally collapsed?

_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Pipe for bending leading edge

Kevin,

I may drill holes for the next one.   The pipe has already been claimed for a couple of closet rods, so a few holes won't matter.   I had a very thin wall piece of brass pipe from a sink drain in a pile of junk and I took that and crushed one end in the vice.   This became my "nozzle" which I fastened to the end of the vacuum cleaner hose.  It worked OK but was hard to tape in place.

One thing I'm not certain about is whether I'll regret not drilling the rivet holes before bending.  Has anyone done it that way?  I'm going to have to lay all my holes out on a now curved surface.

Dan



 	  kmccune wrote: 	
		  I t does not look as though you drilled holes in the pipe? I drilled holes along one side down the pipes length for the stab and elevator skins. I assume that you let the vac suck out one end inside the plastic? This is interesting, because I don't want to ruin  another pipe by drilling holes in it when I do my wing skin!

do not archive



Kevin

_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:18 am Post subject: Pipe for bending leading edge

Dan, you mean "two flat surfaces with a narrow curved surface in between"...



Carlos



2009/2/2 leinad <leinad(at)hughes.net (leinad(at)hughes.net)>

 [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" <leinad(at)hughes.net (leinad(at)hughes.net)>

  

 

...

 One thing I'm not certain about is whether I'll regret not drilling the rivet holes before bending.  Has anyone done it that way?  I'm going to have to lay all my holes out on a now curved surface.

 Dan[b]

naumuk(at)windstream.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: Pipe for bending leading edge

Dan-

    No, you can lay out your holes on a flat surface. Use a piece of scrap 

sheet and drill your holes in it, then duct tape the stock to your nose skin 

and transfer using a Sharpie. I believe Larry Mac's site has pictures. For 

an XL, compared to the tapered wing of an HDS, this should be a snap.

                                                                             

            Bill

---

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